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Revisiting the moment, the pair joked during an interview at CBC headquarters that they should have called their new show “Look at My Sweaty Tits” instead of “Small Achievable Goals.” (The title refers to the idea of tackling things that are overwhelming by breaking them down into more manageable pieces.)

And if talking out loud about sweaty breasts makes you uncomfortable, consider that this series  is meant to chip away at the stigma associated with menopause and perimenopause: the hot flashes and night sweats, the mood swings, the erratic periods, the sleep issues, the sexual dysfunction and other symptoms.

“Your journey in a female body with a uterus — there’s so much stuff that you’re not supposed to talk about,” said Whalen, who’s 54. “You’re not supposed to talk about your period. Every woman knows how to get a pad or a tampon out of her purse and into a washroom without anyone noticing.

“And so  (we get) to menopause and now you’re not supposed to (talk about it)? I just had it. This is something that 50 per cent of the world experiences,” she said.

“The generation of my mother, my grandmother, never really talked about it,” added MacNeill, who’s 49. “That was enough for me to be like, ‘All right, guess what we’re gonna do? Talk about it.’”

And talk about it their characters do in “Small Achievable Goals,” debuting Tuesday, in ways that are often laugh-out-loud funny but grounded in a reality that any woman who’s ever sweated through a blouse or soaked through a pad will recognize.

Whalen plays Julie Muldoon, a driven podcast producer who’s just turned 50 and forms an unlikely friendship with Kris Fine (MacNeill), a 40-something TikTok influencer whose makeup videos Julie is charged with turning into a marketable podcast. 

The two are battling not only the symptoms of menopause and perimenopause — and their own shame around the unpredictability of their bodies — but, as older women, a professional environment that’s stacked against them.

In the first episode, Julie is passed over for a promotion — again — in favour of a younger, less-experienced male colleague who impressed the big boss with a pie chart. Kris is told she’ll need a younger co-host for her podcast because “in four months half your followers could be dead.”

‘I’m not 25 and I’m not cute’

MacNeill and Whalen are very clear that they are not Kris and Julie, but naturally some of their own experiences bled into creating the series.

Both women are accomplished Canadian comedians, actors, writers and producers.

They co-created the much acclaimed “Baroness von Sketch Show” alongside Aurora Browne and Carolyn Taylor. Whalen was also head writer on “This Hour Has 22 Minutes.”

MacNeill got her start doing Shakespeare after graduating from London’s Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. She has acting credits in both Canada and the U.K., including the CBC detective series “Pretty Hard Cases.”

“Before I was on the screen, I was a writer in a lot of comedy rooms and I was often the only woman,” said Whalen. “My joke is I speak straight white male very fluently. But there’s a cost to that. 

“When I was coming up in comedy, I literally had men say to me, ‘Well, I don’t really want to invest in you because you’re just gonna get married and have a kid, right?’ And I’m like, ‘No, I’m not.’ And so I didn’t. Then eventually I had to put my personal life first,” she continued.

“And then you get this success with ‘Baroness,’ (but) we came out of the pandemic and I was like, ‘Oh my God, I’m facing ageism. And I’m not 25 and I’m not cute,’” Whalen added.

“It frustrates me across the board when women are discounted. So I think that was part of my own deep rage about where I found myself. And I wanted to look at that and explore that.”

MacNeill wanted to zero in on Kris’s vulnerability.

“My experience is that vulnerability is shamed a lot and seen as a weakness, and it is the opposite and is so extremely powerful. I think (of) my experience in the workplace and being called emotional or crazy or wild or erratic when really you’re just smart and passionate and have a point.

“For Kris, even though I’m not that type of woman with the gel nails and long hair, I wanted to show a woman who likes to take care of herself but is completely vulnerable, who does cry at work, and I just wanted other women to see themselves and (see) that it is a powerful strength that Kris will start to own.” 

‘This can last two years, this can last 20 years’

Another thing Whalen and MacNeill are clear about is that they are not experts on menopause.

They did do a lot of research. Luckily the subject of menopause is getting more attention these days, through authors like Dr. Jen Gunter  and celebrity influencers like Naomi Watts, but there are also gaps in the information — for instance, how menopause is understood in different cultures — as well as a lack of answers about how to handle it, Whalen said.

“You find out, well, doctors get two weeks of training or an afternoon (on menopause). The thing that is terrifying is this can last two years, this can last 20 years,” she said.

“I was surprised when I started to experience it how little I knew about it and how unprepared I was.”

The series touches on what Whalen called “some greatest hits that a lot of people experience.” 

The main point is to minimize the shame associated with those experiences. 

“What if women didn’t give a f—k about what age they were, about their periods, about bleeding through dresses?” MacNeill said. 

“How empowering would it be? … I’ve never felt hotter, stronger, even going through perimenopause and menopause … I look at my life, I’m so proud of myself. And I’m like, yeah, this is a hard time. But also there’s something f—king incredible and powerful about it.”

‘This is really for everybody’

Please don’t assume, however, that “Small Achievable Goals” is only for women or menopausal women. 

“This is really for everybody because it is a story about transformation,” Whalen said. “Everybody has gone through a change in their life that (makes them feel) helpless. It’s also funny and I think that will appeal to men. From ‘Baroness’ we know that men like a peek behind the curtain and they’re getting to see some stuff that they normally are not privy to.”

That was certainly the case for male crew members, who were amused but also moved by the subject matter, MacNeill and Whalen said.

MacNeill recalled filming a scene in which a character is getting a gynecological exam, “this whole feet up in stirrups and legs apart, and flat down on your back. And there was this discussion of ‘Can you lift the bed in that scene?’ And I said, ‘No, keep it down.’ They’re like, ‘Yeah, but the camera can’t see you.’ I said, ‘Women have to see themselves. You are laid flat on your back. There is no height, there is no power in it. It is all vulnerability.’ And I remember there was sort of silence and understanding.”

Whalen and MacNeill very much hope that women do see themselves in “Small Achievable Goals.”

”I would love at the end of this if we started as women to celebrate this time of life. I would love there to be a rite of passage. I don’t know if you get a superhero cape. I’m not sure what happens,” said Whalen.

“We all should get capes,” agreed MacNeill.

“It would be good for a hot flash because it’s breathable,” added Whalen. “It’s airy. You could wrap it around yourself when you’re cold, then you throw it away. Yeah, maybe the cape is the way.”

“Small Achievable Goals” debuts Feb. 25 at 9 a.m. on CBC Gem and at 9 p.m. on CBC TV.