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It鈥檚 amazing to think that, just five years ago, I鈥檇 be drinking with friends 鈥� remember when we used to go out? 鈥� who had never heard any podcast ever. It鈥檚 like I was asking them to name their favourite Cheraw dance. That definitely changed over the last two years as podcasting exploded into a dominant medium.

It鈥檚 almost as if the world climbed into a time machine and went back to the days when radio was supreme.

And the undisputed champ of podcasting is Mr. Rogan, who routinely holds down several Top 10 spots on the Apple charts and pulls in an estimated 190 million downloads per month. That鈥檚 an audience nearly five times the population of Canada listening or watching the YouTube version for hours at a time as Rogan shoots the breeze with an eclectic slate of guests each week, including comedians, scientists, authors, politicians, celebrities, athletes and conspiracy theorists.

I started listening to 鈥淛RE鈥� a couple of years ago, at the nudging of Jordan Peterson. At first, I was not exactly keen to hear interviews that were longer than 鈥淭he Irishman.鈥� I also tumbled into this spoken word clubhouse with extreme prejudice, remembering Rogan mostly as the host of 鈥淔ear Factor.鈥�

Really? The goof who cackled as contestants ate maggots is now interviewing people like Edward Snowden?

It made no sense. Then it totally made sense.

On 鈥淔ear Factor,鈥� Rogan often looked like he was having an out-of-body experience, like he wanted to be someplace else. But when he straps on those oversized headphones and grins into his podcasting mic, he鈥檚 clearly in his element. He鈥檚 omnipresent. He has a knack for getting his guests to loosen up, which is to say, open up.

Rogan could do a five-hour interview with Talking Elmo and it would be riveting.

This licensing deal with Spotify has created a buzz in the podcasting world. It reminds me of when Howard Stern left terrestrial radio and went to SiriusXM in 2006, three years before Rogan started his podcast. So while the vast majority of podcasters are unlikely to ever sign $100-million contracts, are there lessons to be learned from Rogan?

Yes. What鈥檚 most fascinating about the success of 鈥淛RE鈥� is that, according to conventional wisdom, it should鈥檝e been dead on arrival. Doesn鈥檛 everyone have an attention deficit disorder these days? And, yet, whether he鈥檚 breaking down nutrition during the pandemic or mock-listening to ghost stories from Tom Papa or getting Elon Musk to explain that insane baby name, the martial-arts enthusiast clearly has a black belt in conversation.

Rogan鈥檚 ability to get others to talk about anything 鈥� and more important, get people to listen in 鈥� obliterates any argument against deep dives, even for shallow topics. In this sense, 鈥淛RE鈥� is the antithesis to network news, talk shows and even late-night comedies, which for decades have operated under the working assumption that segments need to be punchy and succinct. Rogan has proven this to be a lie. If a host is open-minded and engaging, lots of people will gladly ride shotgun down a long-form highway for hours and never once ask, 鈥淎re we there yet?鈥�

Another lesson for podcasters and content producers? Woke is increasingly an unsafe space if you want to build an audience. Please don鈥檛 cancel me for pointing this out. But straight talk that is unfiltered by PC catechisms and unafraid of outrage mobs is precisely why millions gravitate toward 鈥淛RE鈥� with an otherworldly level of engagement.

Rogan tells you what he truly believes, not what he thinks he should be saying.

I may often disagree. But I never doubt his sincerity. In this partisan age, it also does not hurt that Rogan is tough to pin down politically, which may explain why he is attacked by those on the left and the right.

And that brings us to the final lesson podcasters can glean from Rogan鈥檚 success: there is no substitute for hard work. The sheer volume of content Rogan has produced over the last 11 years is nuts. That he also does standup, MMA commentary and seems to have more hobbies than most of us have socks is even nuttier.

If 鈥淛oe Rogan Experience鈥� were a body of water, it would be larger than the Pacific.

I try not to gush in this space because in newspapering, as in podcasting, gushing is boring and boring is the only real sin.

But I鈥檓 gushing today because it鈥檚 great to see someone get rewarded for rising to the top by never caring about the bottom. For more than a decade, Rogan has not deviated from his POV, or his vision for podcasting.

He didn鈥檛 sell out this week. The corporate world finally bought in.